Hostile congregants of “Papatoetoe Sventh-day Adventist Community Church” in Auckland, New Zealand, evicted from their fellowship and evicted from a public restaurant a Christian who is absolutely innocent in regards to anything related to their church, is absolutely innocent in regards to anything related to their congregants, is absolutely innocent in regards to the public restaurant, and is absolutely innocent in regards to all excommunications by other churches. The hostile church congregants accused Torsten of being a dangerous weirdo, because they had been told that Torsten is a dangerous weirdo.

(http://www.papsda.co.nz)

On Saturday afternoon March 1, 2014 at 13:21, Papatoetoe Seventh-day Adventist Church in Auckland, New Zealand, through their congregants, excommunicated Torsten from their fellowship by evicting Torsten from a social gathering at a nearby public restaurant. Two older male congregants stood guard inside the door to a nearby restaurant ‘Urban Soul Café’ (http://www.urbansoul.co.nz), and as soon as Torsten opened the door to enter, the hostile congregants blocked Torsten’s path to entry, declared that Torsten was not welcome, demanded that Torsten must go away, charged Torsten of being a weirdo, and accused Torsten of hassling/targeting young girls and following them around. The two congregants immediately lied to the restaurant staff that Torsten was a problem, and the restaurant staff and the restaurant manager (the restaurant staff may have lied about the involvement of their manager) requested that Torsten must leave the restaurant as ‘Torsten had upset their customers’. Torsten therefore directly departed from the restaurant.

Earlier in the morning at the nearby Papatoetoe Seventh-day Adventist Church, Torsten had initiated to greet and briefly chat with approximately 15 men and women during the time of his visit there, and a few persons had also initiated to greet Torsten. One of the persons who Torsten had spoken with inside the church was a woman named Rachael who worked as a hairdresser. Both the woman Rachael and her younger brother had invited Torsten to join them and a group of other congregants at a nearby café afterwards, and both the woman and her younger brother engaged in describing to Torsten the directions to that café; expecting Torsten to come. When Torsten had concluded the social aspect of the gathering inside the church building, Torsten therefore departed from the church and walked over to the café according to the invitation and the given instruction. But awaiting Torsten inside the nearby restaurant entrance were two men who Torsten had observed earlier inside the Papatoetoe Adventist Church but who Torsten had not yet spoken with.

The two congregants acknowledged that they had been told by some person(s) that Torsten was a weirdo, but that their daughter who had spoken with Torsten did not yet know the same information that Torsten was a weirdo.

On the same day of eviction from church fellowship at the public restaurant, Torsten wrote an email to the staff of Papatoetoe Seventh-day Adventist Church and requested an explanation to the incident of eviction from fellowship. However, the lead pastor of the Adventist church refused to answer questions openly and refused to provide information/explanation to Torsten through email, but instead the lead pastor requested a private talk. By overwhelming evidence of experience with other pastors of other churches, there is a clear pattern that when a pastor 1) refuses to answer questions openly, and 2) requests a personal meeting to talk/discuss, the church has decided to obscure truth.

Papatoetoe Seventh-day Adventist Community Church: http://www.papsda.co.nz

Urban Soul Cafe: http://www.urbansoul.co.nz

Time: Saturday, March 1, 2014, at 13:21

Location: immediately inside the entrance door to Urban Souls Café in Auckland, New Zealand

·         [MP3-file at 1.2 MB, 2:35 min]: http://www.kyrkor.be/Papatoetoe_Seventh-day_Adventist_Church_120301_mp3.mp3

·         [AMR-file at 245 kB, 2:35 min]: http://www.kyrkor.be/Papatoetoe_Seventh-day_Adventist_Church_120301_amr.amr

TRANSCRIPT:

MAN ONE:   … a whole lot of churches. You’ve been hassling young girls.

TORSTEN:   Have I?

MAN ONE:   So, yeah you. You’re not welcome here, alright.

TORSTEN:   Who are you?

MAN ONE:   I’m Rachel’s dad.

TORSTEN:   Ok.

TORSTEN:   And who are you?

MAN TWO:   I’m a friend of hers.

TORSTEN:   Ok.

TORSTEN:   I don’t quite understand. What?

MAN ONE:   You’re following around after her.

TORSTEN:   Actually, a group of persons invited me to come here.

MAN TWO:   She didn’t know you’re a weirdo.

TORSTEN:   And you know I’m a weirdo?

MAN TWO:   We’ve been told, that

TORSTEN:   Who said that?

MAN ONE:   Basically you target young girls, you follow them around, you make them feel very uncomfortable. So we just need to say you’re not welcome.

MAN ONE:   I’m not here to the argument. I’m here to convey the message so you fully understand. Do you understand?

TORSTEN:   No I don’t understand.

MAN ONE:   Well I think you do understand.

TORSTEN:   No I don’t.

MAN ONE:   I’m just telling you to leave these girls alone. Ok?

TORSTEN:   This is a public restaurant?

MAN TWO:   You can do what you like.

MAN ONE:   You can do what you like. All I’m just saying is that you make these girls feel uncomfortable, and you follow them around. And it just wouldn’t be right thing for you to do. Do you understand?!

TORSTEN:   Are you a member …

MAN ONE:   Do you understand?!

TORSTEN:   Are you a member of the church?

MAN ONE:   Do you understand?!

TORSTEN:   Are you a member of the church?

MAN TWO:   No no. It doesn’t matter.

MAN ONE:   It doesn’t matter.

MAN TWO:   We’ve told you [our ways]. Ok?

MAN ONE:   The information has been conveyed.

TORSTEN:   But you were in the church. I saw you in the church.

MAN TWO:   Yeah we were in the church.

TORSTEN:   Why were you in the church?

MAN TWO:   That doesn’t matter. Just leave the daughter alone.

TORSTEN:   Are you Christians?

MAN ONE:   Go away!!

[Both men walked away approximately two meters, and spoke with a restaurant staff.]

MAN ONE:   … following around … He’s a problem.

JOSEPH:   Ok. Do you mind leaving? Sir.

TORSTEN:   Who are you?

JOSEPH:   I work here.

TORSTEN:   Ok.

TORSTEN:   And what’s the name of the restaurant?

JOSEPH:   Urban Soul Café.

TORSTEN:   Urban Soul Café.

TORSTEN:   And why are you asking me to leave?

JOSEPH:   Are you recording me?

TORSTEN:   I am. I am recording you.

JOSEPH:   I’m just asking you to leave because you’ve upset customers.

TORSTEN:   Ok.

JOSEPH:   And I’ve talked to my manager, and he’s asked you to leave.

TORSTEN:   And your name is?

JOSEPH:   My name is Joseph Williams.

TORSTEN:   Thank-you Joseph.

JOSEPH:   And I’d also like to say that you didn’t inform me that you were recording this public conversation.

TORSTEN:   Well, it’s gonna be published. Thank-you.

The email dialogue with Papatoetoe Seventh-day Adventist Church in Auckland, New Zealand, is read chronologically from the bottom upwards beneath, with the most recent email at the top:

---------------------

Papatoetoe SDA Church.

Norman Hurlow,

It seems that you may be underestimating the severity of evil in the public eviction committed by your congregants, and that you underestimate the gravity of sinful lies/slander by your congregants (of which it appears highly probable that some of the leaders of your church are responsible).

I am neither naive nor a fool. From a person/party who is absolutely innocent, it is normally easy to deny and explain allegations/questions regarding guilt. From a person/party who is guilty, transparency is instinctively perceived as a threat.

In light of the severity of lies/slander and evicting conduct from congregants of your church, and in perspective of my observations, this is not a time to sweep away more church filth beneath your carpet, but this is a time for your church to truthfully explain the conduct and to answer questions regarding observations, and to admit sin and repent from it where necessary.

At this stage, in light of the severity of lies/slander and conduct from congregants (leaders) of your church, even if it were possible for me to sit and chat with you in Auckland holding a cup of coffee - I would not.

First, you must be absolutely upfront and truthful.

Regards,

Torsten Nenzen

Hi Torsten,

The assumptions you make are in no way verified by my desire to meet and talk with you in person, rather than continue an email conversation, which we all know is limited in its ability to convey true meaning and sentiment between human beings as words are only a fraction of true human communication.

Rather your seeming refusal to want to actually dialogue face to face leads me to conclude that you are not looking for open and genuine community as you initially lead us to believe.

So please stop making false assumptions and lets meet at the next convenience to talk about your concerns.

Thanks,

Norman Hurlow

Lead Pastor

Papatoetoe SDA Community Church

PO Box 23231, Hunters Corner, Auckland

16 Puhinui Road, Manukau City, Auckland

P 09 278-7786

F 09 278-4906

M 021 440983

E norman@papsda.co.nz

W www.papsda.co.nz

Papatoetoe SDA Church.

Norman Hurlow,

The fact that you refuse to explain the public eviction from your church community by your congregants, and that you refuse to explain the observations inside your church which I addressed to you, shows that your interest is not towards truth and transparency; which subsequently indicates that you are protecting the liars/slanderers of your SDA church organisation and possibly also protecting yourself from truth.

Do you really think that hiding the evils and sins within your church organisation will benefit the credibility of your church organisation?

Regards,

Torsten Nenzen

Hi Torsten,

I will not respond via email to your thoughts and concerns.

Next time you are in Auckland let’s catch up and talk about these concerns.

I will wait to hear from you.

Regards,

Norman Hurlow

Lead Pastor

Papatoetoe SDA Community Church

PO Box 23231, Hunters Corner, Auckland

16 Puhinui Road, Manukau City, Auckland

P 09 278-7786

F 09 278-4906

M 021 440983

E norman@papsda.co.nz

W www.papsda.co.nz

Papatoetoe SDA Church.

Norman Hurlow,

For two reasons I am offering to you the opportunity to explain the satanic conduct by some of the congregants of your church, and to answer the questions which I addressed to you concerning some of my observations when I visited your SDA church.

Firstly, you have an ethical right of defence. This is an opportunity for you to come clean regarding the satanic incident of lies and eviction from your church fellowship (and possibly also regarding the observations within your church premises as I mentioned - including my observation of you) by speaking truthfully. The truth coupled with repentance will set your church free; regardless of how ugly and sinful the truth may be. Unlike the revoked right of defence against me by all the lying church pastors of Auckland, and by the churches across New Zealand, through the pastors' scandalously false accusations, lies and slander against me, I am giving to you, Norman Hurlow, the right of defence.

Secondly, I have now moved on from all the devilish churches in Auckland to a different city.

Who are the leaders within your SDA church in Papatoetoe that are slandering against me with their satanic lies? What did you personally say to the group leader Maurice, or to others, about me? Who were the two persons that entered Maurice's Saturday morning study group late (that you rose to speak with privately), and what did they want? What lies has you Young Adults group leader(s) been saying about me?

I look forward to your answers and explanations.

Regards,

Torsten Nenzen

Torsten, I am willing to meet up with you to talk about your questions and concerns.

I believe this is the biblical mandate and process to address concerns.

When and where would work for you?

Regards,

Norman Hurlow

Lead Pastor

Papatoetoe SDA Community Church

PO Box 23231, Hunters Corner, Auckland

16 Puhinui Road, Manukau City, Auckland

P 09 278-7786

F 09 278-4906

M 021 440983

E norman@papsda.co.nz

W www.papsda.co.nz

Hi Norman Hurlow,

Thanks for your email response.

Considering the gravity of sinful conduct by at least two congregants against me on Saturday, and in perspective of some of my observations upon visiting your church, I think it would be appropriate for you to speak openly. If there is no wrongdoing within you church, then there is nothing to hide and no reason to not simply answer the questions. However, it seems apparent that there is at least an incident of slander within your church by at least one person, or perhaps more probable, there is a culture of gossip and slander within your church with several persons' involvement. Because of the severity of public hostility manifested against me from congregants at your church, I will certainly deal with your church equally publicly. And because I suspect that leaders of your church are involved, I want any leader who has slandered against me to acknowledge their slander and publicly repent from their slander. Slander is a sin that will be resolved publicly.

Please answer the questions.

Thank-you.

Best regards,

Torsten Nenzen

Hi there Torsten,

Please advise of a time that would suit to meet up and talk about some of your questions and concerns.

A Friday lunch time would suit me, I can come to where you are if that is easier.

Regards,

Norman Hurlow

Lead Pastor

Papatoetoe SDA Community Church

PO Box 23231, Hunters Corner, Auckland

16 Puhinui Road, Manukau City, Auckland

P 09 278-7786

F 09 278-4906

M 021 440983

E norman@papsda.co.nz

W www.papsda.co.nz

Papatoetoe Seventh-day Adventist Community Church.

Hi!

Due to the false accusations from your church and your expulsion of me from a public restaurant, I would like further clarification from you.

After your false accusations and expulsion of me earlier today, I would like to know who and how this expulsion connects with some of my other observations in your church.

When I first met you, Norman, on last week’s Shabbat, I observed a discomforting intensity in you eyes, and you then walked away 7 meters from me to speak privately with the group leader Maurice. Did you mention to Maurice in that maneuver something of your pre-perception of my person? In the case that you did, then your assuring welcoming email to me on Feb.15 would not correspond well. If you did not spread pre-perceptions about me, then it would be reassuring to know that at least you are not a source of the problem. I prefer to believe that both you and Maurice are innocent to any ill rumours about me. Please confirm to me your innocence.

My other observation were the two persons entering Maurice’s study group late this morning; a man and a woman. You stood up to meet them and spoke with them privately. Were they related in any way at all to the expulsion of me today? If they were, then I would like to know about it. If they were not, then I can exclude those thoughts.

In no manner whatsoever have I been “targeting” any of the women in your church. Today I took initiative to greet about 12-15 persons, and additional few initiated a greeting to me. There has been nothing whatsoever inappropriate in my conduct.

Among the many who I shook hand with and had a brief chat with inside your church was also a woman named Rachel; a professional hairdresser. She and her younger brother both invited me to join them for coffee at nearby Urban Soul Café. Both she and he tried to describe for me the directions how to reach that restaurant. Both were welcoming me and expecting me to go there. Therefore, I did walk over to that restaurant.

Of the men and women who I greeted, only one person indicated a very clear suspicion towards me; a young man, who asked me the type of controlling question that a control-freak church leader would ask: “I saw you speaking with [a man who he pointed out]. How do you know each other?” Due to his unfriendly tone of voice, and his controlling question, I assume he may have been a leader of sorts in your church. Who was he? Is he a source of false accusations against me?

Or, is there a different leader of your church who has been spreading lies about me?

As soon as I opened the door to the restaurant Urban Soul Café, two men stood directly inside the door, obviously waiting for me, and requested that I leave the restaurant. One of the men identified himself as the father of Rachael. The other man seemed to identify himself as a friend of this woman Rachael.

I would like to know the truth, please. You have quite a bit of explaining to do.

Thanks.

Best regards,

Torsten Nenzen

---------------------------

Papatoetoe Seventh-day Adventist Community Church: http://www.papsda.co.nz

Urban Soul Cafe: http://www.urbansoul.co.nz

[AMR-file at 245 kB, 2:35 min]: http://www.kyrkor.be/Papatoetoe_Seventh-day_Adventist_Church_120301_amr.amr

[MP3-file at 1.2 MB, 2:35 min]: http://www.kyrkor.be/Papatoetoe_Seventh-day_Adventist_Church_120301_mp3.mp3

TRANSCRIPT:

MAN ONE:   … a whole lot of churches. You’ve been hassling young girls.

TORSTEN:   Have I?

MAN ONE:   So, yeah you. You’re not welcome here, alright.

TORSTEN:   Who are you?

MAN ONE:   I’m Rachel’s dad.

TORSTEN:   Ok.

TORSTEN:   And who are you?

MAN TWO:   I’m a friend of hers.

TORSTEN:   Ok.

TORSTEN:   I don’t quite understand. What?

MAN ONE:   You’re following around after her.

TORSTEN:   Actually, a group of persons invited me to come here.

MAN TWO:   She didn’t know you’re a weirdo.

TORSTEN:   And you know I’m a weirdo?

MAN TWO:   We’ve been told, that

TORSTEN:   Who said that?

MAN ONE:   Basically you target young girls, you follow them around, you make them feel very uncomfortable. So we just need to say you’re not welcome.

MAN ONE:   I’m not here to the argument. I’m here to convey the message so you fully understand. Do you understand?

TORSTEN:   No I don’t understand.

MAN ONE:   Well I think you do understand.

TORSTEN:   No I don’t.

MAN ONE:   I’m just telling you to leave these girls alone. Ok?

TORSTEN:   This is a public restaurant?

MAN TWO:   You can do what you like.

MAN ONE:   You can do what you like. All I’m just saying is that you make these girls feel uncomfortable, and you follow them around. And it just wouldn’t be right thing for you to do. Do you understand?!

TORSTEN:   Are you a member …

MAN ONE:   Do you understand?!

TORSTEN:   Are you a member of the church?

MAN ONE:   Do you understand?!

TORSTEN:   Are you a member of the church?

MAN TWO:   No no. It doesn’t matter.

MAN ONE:   It doesn’t matter.

MAN TWO:   We’ve told you [our ways]. Ok?

MAN ONE:   The information has been conveyed.

TORSTEN:   But you were in the church. I saw you in the church.

MAN TWO:   Yeah we were in the church.

TORSTEN:   Why were you in the church?

MAN TWO:   That doesn’t matter. Just leave the daughter alone.

TORSTEN:   Are you Christians?

MAN ONE:   Go away!!

[Both men walked away approximately two meters, and spoke with a restaurant staff.]

MAN ONE:   … following around … He’s a problem

JOSEPH:   Ok. Do you mind leaving? Sir.

TORSTEN:   Who are you?

JOSEPH:   I work here.

TORSTEN:   Ok.

TORSTEN:   And what’s the name of the restaurant?

JOSEPH:   Urban Soul Café.

TORSTEN:   Urban Soul Café.

TORSTEN:   And why are you asking me to leave?

JOSEPH:   [Are you recording me?]

TORSTEN:   I am. I am recording you.

JOSEPH:   I’m just asking you to leave because you’ve upset customers.

TORSTEN:   Ok.

JOSEPH:   And I’ve talked to my manager, and he’s asked you to leave.

TORSTEN:   And your name is?

JOSEPH:   My name is Joseph Williams.

TORSTEN:   Thank-you Joseph.

JOSEPH:   And I’d also like to say that you didn’t inform me that you were recording this public conversation.

TORSTEN:   Well, it’s gonna be published. Thank-you.

Hi.

I would like to join the Hub. When do you meet?

Best regards,

Torsten Nenzen

Hi.

I'm interested in Life Groups.

Torsten Nenzen

Hi there Torsten,

Please know that you are welcome to find community and fellowship at our church on 16 Puhinui Road, Manukau, Auckland.

Please refer to our website for meeting times and events.

www.papsda.co.nz

Hope to see you soon.

Norman Hurlow

Lead Pastor

Papatoetoe SDA Community Church

PO Box 23231, Hunters Corner, Auckland

16 Puhinui Road, Manukau City, Auckland

P 09 278-7786

F 09 278-4906

M 021 440983

E norman@papsda.co.nz

W www.papsda.co.nz

Dear SDA Churches in Auckland,

Hi.

I am a Christian single man here in Auckland. I seek a Christian community in Auckland where I also might find opportunities to fellowship, socialise, meet and talk with other Christian singles.

Are there opportunities in your congregation where also single Christians can meet and communicate - and build relationships?

Are there fellowship groups, community groups, cell groups or small groups in your church that I can attend?

Best regards,

Torsten Nenzén

Email: torsten@nenzen.net