Moody Church in Chicago, Illinois, USA

Moody Church in Chicago

(http://www.moodychurch.org)

Moody Church in Chicago, Illinois, U.S.A. excommunicates Torsten, because Torsten wants to marry a Christian woman.

From: torsten@nenzen.net
To: Steve Mason
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 9:32 PM
Subject: "I suggest that you move on ."

" To which places are you referring Christians who want to marry another Christian? As you clearly side with Willow Creek Chicago in this matter, and as Willow Creek Chicago clearly loves beer and suds, shall I then presume that you are recommending Christians within Moody Church to visit the local bar or pubs to meet their marriage partners? Please explain how you are thinking. "

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From: torsten@nenzen.net
To: Steve Mason
Cc: Pastors
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 1:53 PM
Subject: "I suggest that you move on ."

Steve Mason of Moody Church.

From your email I understand that you have some difficulties comprehending, maybe due to inability in separating facts from your presumptions, and that you have difficulties of discernment and judgement. Your failure to recognise your hard conversational tone, which is so distant from empathy and gentleness, may in part possibly be explained by deficiency of prayer and lack of intimacy with the Holy Spirit, it may in part be explained by a misunderstanding of Christ-likeness, and it may in part be explained by a gravely misunderstood role of a shepherd. If no person has said this to you before I did, then I suggest that people in your environment are not as up front with you as I am.

In our conversation on Monday June 13, I mentioned to you from early start that I am exceptionally transparent with my life, that I will always speak the truth, and that if you do not want to hear the truth then you should not ask me. Because if I answer, I will speak honestly and truthfully.

Here is a clear example of your inability to separate facts from your presumptions. In conjunction with that I inquired with you about the International Students ministry and about the College ministry at Moody Church, you asked me some questions, and I then mentioned to you of my previous experiences at mentoring international students at two universities in Sweden. Upon mentioning this to you, you then asked me if I wanted to be mentoring students at Moody. I answered this question with exactly these two sentences: “I will never serve a church that I am not a member of. And I will never become a member of a church where I do not trust the leadership.” From my clear statement (which was intended to be a signal to you that I do not trust you entirely), your imagination has instead derived this statement: “I think you even mentioned at one point you preferred 20-30's groups for "mentoring."”. Maybe you are deliberately dishonest in summarising this false statement about me, perhaps as a means to motivate all other pastors of Moody Church to side with you against me, or perhaps you are simply incapable to separate facts from your presumptions.

Regarding your imposed restrictions, apart from your clearly stated restriction that I may not visit the “SALT” or “The Venue” ministries geared towards 20’s and 30’s age groups, you also imposed a clear restriction for me that I was not allowed to mention to anyone within Moody Church about my negative experiences of exclusion from Park Community Church in Chicago, or of the excommunication from Willow Creek Chicago. I responded to your restriction about what I may speak about to others, which was your stated condition for my future visits to Moody Church. I said to you “I can try to dodge the question once, but if people are inquisitive then I will end up telling them the truth.”.

The fact that you side with the falsely accusing and excommunicating pastors of Willow Creek Chicago, and side with the rejecting pastor of Park Community Church in Chicago, signals two things: 1) that collegial/pastoral loyalty, and your career, is more important to you than truth and benevolence, and 2) that your sense of judgement is corrupted with ungodly priorities.

You say that Moody Church ministries are not designed so that people can meet potential marriage partners, and that you recommend to those Christians who desire to marry with another Christian of the opposite gender to move onto other places. To which places are you referring Christians who want to marry another Christian? As you clearly side with Willow Creek Chicago in this matter, and as Willow Creek Chicago clearly loves beer and suds, shall I then presume that you are recommending Christians within Moody Church to visit the local bar or pubs to meet their marriage partners? Please explain how you are thinking.

You state that you need clarification: ”If we meet again, I need clarification of your motivations and intentions in seeking to join our group.” My intentions to visiting any church will always remain the same; as long as I am unmarried. My intention is to connect with people, and especially with people of the female gender. My unwavering objective is to find a Christian woman of God for marriage.

Of course I shall not visit a church whose leader states to me “I suggest that you move on …”, and as this is the statement of Moody Church, I must move on in my pursuit to find a real Christian church. Unless, of course, Moody Church repents from its current stance against me.

Regards,

Torsten

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From: Steve Mason
To: torsten@nenzen.net
Cc: Pastors
Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2011 4:49 PM
Subject: RE: Can we meet again

Torsten, I have a feeling that our further correspondence may go the way of that from the Willow Creek pastors although I pray not.

First to address your feeling of being “restricted.” Salt is not “restricted” to you alone. Like other classes such as our high school or college ministry we say that one needs to be in the age specific range and that is applied to all equally. I am sorry you took it personally. There was nothing in my tone that was intended to be hard or unwelcoming. I even asked you what you thought of me, d/t your attitude toward the other pastors from the other churches. If you felt the way you do, I would have appreciated you advising me of your discomfort right then and there. Maybe as Christian men we could have talked it out. But be assured there was no offense intended.

The reason I asked to speak again had to do with the very emails you had me read which I found disconcerting on several different levels. First when you state from the beginning that your clear intentions for wanting to get involved in certain ministries, whether they be small groups or larger group activities, is to meet women, then from the standpoint of a pastor you are not coming for the right reasons. As one of the pastors from Willow told you, it becomes counterproductive and I might add has an adverse influence. I find such a statement to be a major red flag. After reading the emails and reflecting on our conversations, I don’t feel that you were up front with me when you came to talk. You inquired about our singles group, and even pushed a bit to find out where the 30's would meet. I think you even mentioned at one point you preferred 20-30's groups for "mentoring." Given the emails to Willow, I can only conclude that you came over to Moody with the same intentions and that is simply to meet women. As a pastor, I see my responsibilities to include the protection of the women under my care from one who may have such intentions. If we meet again, I need clarification of your motivations and intentions in seeking to join our group.

Like Willow and Park, our ministries from small group Bible studies to the main service first and foremost exist for the deeper study of God's Word and for our people to grow in Christ likeness. They are not designed for meeting potential marriage partners. As was said there are other avenues you may take if that is your desire. Since this is the case, I think it best you move on to a place where these can be met.

Torsten, I will speak frankly with you as a Christian brother. A judgmental attitude towards brothers and sisters in Christ is sin and you need to repent of it. I say this for your own sake and in Christian love. You seem to make judgments that are broad and sweeping and to feel that you are the only one who sees and defends truth. You tell a church up front that you are there to meet a potential wife and are not interested in other ministries, and when they guide you away from that you judge them, calling them instruments of Satan, and accuse them of restricting you from ministry. Your language to the pastors of Willow was completely inappropriate, and I found them to be gracious and godlike in their responses. But I feel like you have such a blind spot here and simply cannot see it. I would encourage you first to seek forgiveness from the Lord and then from those whom you accused of wrong doing.

I will pray for you and hope that you will hear what I am saying to you is for your good.

In Him,

Pastor Steve Mason

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----- Original Message -----
From: torsten@nenzen.net
To: Steve Mason
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2011 8:39 PM
Subject: Re: Can we meet again

Hi Steve Mason!

I am uncertain if I am interested in another discussion. It depends on what your intentions are for a second discussion. If your intentions are to further limit my options (you have already imposed a restriction for me to visit SALT), or if your intention is to critique, then I am frankly not interested in a second discussion. I did not enjoy the hard tone of questioning today, and today's discussion did lead to a diminished appreciation for Moody Church. I met and spoke briefly with two other pastors of Moody at the Sunday evening service, and from the short interactions with those two pastors I was actually beginning to hope for a possibility of a church. That hope vanished after having discussed with you today. That discussion was not conducted in a tone of gentleness.

So before I decide if I will meet you on Wed at 9 am, I will request that you state your intentions for a second discussion.

Best regards,

Torsten Nenzen

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----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Mason
To: torsten@nenzen.net
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2011 8:02 PM
Subject: Can we meet again

Torsten, I have read your blog and would really like to have another discussion. Can we meet maybe this Wed at 9:00? If not when I get back?

Steve

Rev. Steven P. Mason
Pastor for Equipping and Young Adult Ministries
The Moody Church: 1635 N. LaSalle, Chicago IL 60614
(312) 327-8600 | Fax. (312) 943-9179 | www.moodychurch.org
"Nothing is so easy as to deceive oneself. For what we wish, we readily believe." (Demosthenes)

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----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Mason
To: torsten@nenzen.net
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2011 12:50 PM
Subject: RE: Monday 3 pm

See you at 3:00

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----- Original Message -----
From: torsten@nenzen.net
To: Steve Mason
Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2011 10:56 PM
Subject: Monday 3 pm

Dear Steve Mason,

Sorry to hear that there was a death in the family.

Monday at 3 pm would certainly work for me. Shall we say 3 pm tomorrow Monday 13/6? If I hear nothing else from you, then I will be at Moody Church reception at that time.

I visited the 5 pm service tonight and discovered how well organised Moody Church is. Impressive.

From what I understand, the following optionas are available this week:

- Thursday 6:30 pm, Crossroads
- Saturday 6:30 pm, The Venue
- Sunday 11:30 am, SALT (or Fusion or Crossroads)

If there are any additional occasions to connect with other Christians during this week, then please let me know.

See you tomorrow.

Best regards,

Torsten Nenzen

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----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Mason
To: torsten@nenzen.net
Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2011 5:27 AM
Subject: RE: Your Email

Torsten, Unfortunately I am now unavailable today. Is there sometime on Mon or Wed that you could meet? I am open between 3:00-5:00 on Mon or 2:30-5:00 on Wed. If not could we set something up for the following week? I am out of town from Thurs-Mon d/t a death in the family. Would you be able to fit into any of the above time slots?
Steve

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----- Original Message -----
From: torsten@nenzen.net
To: Steve Mason
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2011 11:47 PM
Subject: Re: Your Email

Hi Steven Mason!

I plan to be at Moody Church around 3:45 pm on Sunday. And later at 5 pm I intend to attend the Sunday service. To connect with each other for a talk at 4 pm Sunday, my mobile number for a text message will be +46 70 7777754. I look forward to meeting you tomorrow Sunday.

Best regards,

Torsten Nenzen

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----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Mason
To: torsten@nenzen.net
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2011 3:41 PM
Subject: Your Email

Hello Torsten, I am responding to your contact request that was left sent via the TMC website. I would love to meet with and talk about the information you have requested and also can let you know that some of that info you can glean off of the website itself, but I can certainly fill you in on more detail. I am available this Sunday afternoon at 4:00. Are you available at that time? I look forward to meeting. Thanks

God bless

Steve

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Sent: Friday, June 10, 2011 (sent via Moody Church website)
Subject: Christian connection in Chicago

Moody Church.

I am new to Chicago.

Moody Theological Seminary and another Christian that I met in Chicago recommended that I visit your New Life Church.

I have visited two other churches in Chicago. Last Sunday I visited Willow Creek Chicago and Park Community Church, and have this week communicated with the pastors of both those churches. From those communications, I conclude that it is more Biblical to warn people against those two churches than to endorse them. I certainly will shoulder this responsibility, for the sake of truth and Biblical love, and warn others against Willow Creek Church and Park Community Church. Biblical truth and benevolence must remain as core values and practice of Christian church.

I would like to participate also in social and connective activities for Christians. What are the Christian connective opportunities and schedule for the next two weeks? Anything especially for Young Adults Ministries, College & Career Ministries, Singles Ministries, Sports Ministries?

Best regards,

Torsten Nenzen
torsten@nenzen.net

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