Dishonest, manipulative and prejudiced “Hornsby Community Church” in Sydney, Australia, excommunicated a Christian who is absolutely innocent in relation to all excommunications by churches. Hornsby Community Church banned an innocent Christian from fellowship, first by evasion of the Christian’s inquiry, and later by utterly false accusations against the Christian of emotional wounds and bitter hurts, whilst falsely exalting themselves as though their manipulations, prejudices, pseudo-charismatic lies, false accusations and ban would be sanctioned by some Biblical mandate and a self-proclaimed apostolic authority.

(http://www.cch.net.au)

 

 

 

Manipulative, dishonest and prejudiced Hornsby Community Church in Sydney, Australia, has no real interest in facts, truth, and justice. Instead, Hornsby Community Church contributes with more false accusations against Torsten. As typically manipulative and dishonest pseudo-charismatics, also Hornsby Community Church abuses the name of the Holy Spirit in projection of their fears and fantasies onto people.

 

The beneath paragraph of rubbish from the Hornsby Community Church exemplifies the pseudo-pentecostal abuse. At none of my visits to their church did I discuss theology with anyone or debate any topic, and therefore their church’s pseudo-charismatic nonsense has another source of inspiration. Maybe the Hornsby Community Church had read online a theological discussion between myself and another church, or maybe they derived errant conclusions from my declaration that my primary loyalty among all earthly nations is to Israel, or maybe they improperly deduced a judgement on my theology by the image of a tallit on my personal card of contact details. Whatever psychological effect resulted in the beneath paragraph from their church, one thing is absolutely certain; the beneath paragraph has no specific relevance to my situation or theology. In the same way as these other three statements are mere products of extreme prejudice and a manipulative church culture, the beneath paragraph also is mere prejudice. Nothing of this relates to the Holy Spirit -- whom I know.

 

·         I feel the Holy Spirit revealed to me that you have come to CCH with many wounds which need healing.

·         You should find healing from the bitter hurts you carry, but it requires a deep change in your heart and mind.

·         Perhaps it is time for you to realise that the common feature of this pattern is you.

 

I believe Romans 14 speaks really specifically to your situation. In particular v14 when Paul says, "I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean." It's really easy to find issues to be divided over. But Paul emphasises the need to find unity in the Spirit even though we have some differences. This whole chapter talks about how we as brothers in the church should deal with differences of scriptural interpretation and the practical application of our faith. It's important to remember he is talking to ONE church (the romans) when he says this. He's not talking to how we tolerate other denominations but how we relate day-to-day despite our differences. I encourage you to spend time reading and meditating on this passage of scripture.”

 

The dialogue with falsely accusing Hornsby Community Church in Sydney, Australia, is read chronologically from the bottom upwards beneath, with the most recent email at the top:

 

 

 

 

---------------------

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Date:

Tue, 03 Dec 2013 12:48:10 +1100

From:

torsten@nenzen.net <nenzen@nenzen.org>

To:

Dave Dennis <Dave.Dennis@cch.net.au>

CC:

info <info@cch.net.au>, "office@cch.net.au" <office@cch.net.au>, admin <admin@cch.net.au>

Subject:

Re: Christian meetings

 

Community Church Hornsby.

 

Hello Dave Dennis,

 

Such utter arrogance, prejudice and dishonesty on your part; full of false accusations against my person. You truly have no interest in truth.

 

I essentially asked: Is there opportunity for Christian fellowship, and if so, am I welcome?

You essentially responded: We have some fellowship, but you won't like it. And besides, you are hurt and require healing. You have already decided that you don't want to fellowship with us. You have a history of excommunications, and therefore you are a problem.

 

Shame on you! No, the problem is you!

 

You had already decided that Torsten is not welcome to CCH. Based on your prejudices, and through your defence mechanisms (denial of reality and truth), you decided that Torsten is guilty of something. You are reacting no differently from every other excommunicating pastor, but with the difference that you additionally distort that Torsten has rejected CCH, and not vice versa.

 

Your manipulative personality shines through in your responses; projecting responses onto me, and baselessly accusing me falsely that I would need healing and that I would have a negative attitude to the body of Jesus Christ. Nothing of your accusations are true!

 

The body of Jesus Christ and local churches are two separate domains that intersect. Many churchpeople are not part of the body of Jesus Christ, but some are. Likewise, not all members of the body of Christ are part of local churches, but still, most are. I anticipate that in not a too distant future, these two domains (church organisations, true body of Christ) will diverge even further from each other.

 

As a typically dishonest and devilish pastor, you accuse that I am guilty of something, because most pastors have excommunicated me. And if anyone asks any of the excommunicating churches why they excommunicated Torsten, none have any Biblical basis for their excommunication. All of it, is in the prejudiced minds of pastors such as yourself, who have no real interest in facts, truth and justice.

 

Shame on you for excommunicating me in such a manipulative fashion.

 

Regards,

 

Torsten Nenzen

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Date:

Mon, 2 Dec 2013 23:51:26 +0000

From:

Dave Dennis <Dave.Dennis@cch.net.au>

To:

torsten@nenzen.net <torsten@nenzen.net>

CC:

info <info@cch.net.au>, "office@cch.net.au" <office@cch.net.au>, admin <admin@cch.net.au>

Subject:

Re: Christian meetings

 

Hi Torsten,

 

I’m sorry that you’ve misunderstood my email, Torsten. But to be honest, there seems to be so many issues that you have against churches and pastors, that I really can’t see how CCH is going to be of help to you.

 

The simple answers to your questions are:

- Are there opportunities in your congregation where also single Christians can meet and communicate and build relationships?

Answer: Yes, people build relationships all over our congregation. Our church is not a “Sunday event”, but we engage in genuine family relationships with each other.

 

- Are there fellowship groups, community groups, cell groups or small groups that I can attend?

Answer: Yes, but given your combative language, I doubt that you would enjoy any of them.

 

As for other points you raise in your email, Torsten, I won’t engage with you on it via email. If you want to talk face to face, that would be fine, but I think you’ve already made up your mind that CCH is not the church for you. Indeed it takes just a moment on google to discover that you have a repeating cycle of this approach, behaviour and response from a broad spectrum of other churches. As you openly admitted that you have had conflict with many other churches, perhaps it is time for you to realise that the common feature of this pattern is you. The Church is Jesus precious Bride whom He loves. It was implemented by Jesus, and it's leadership and function operates under a biblical model and mandate and with apostolic authority. If you can't accept and love the bride of Christ then I can't see how you're ever going to find home or happiness as part of it.

 

As stated in my previous message we desire that you should find healing from the bitter hurts you carry, but it requires a deep change in your heart and mind.

 

Best regards,

Dave Dennis

Children, Youth and Young Adults Pastor

 

W: www.cch.net.au / E: dave.dennis@cch.net.au

M: 0401 953 932 / P: 02 9482 2479 / F: 02 9477 7561

Ministry Centre: Unit 4/67–71 Jersey Street Hornsby NSW 2077

Post: PO Box 487, Hornsby NSW 1630

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Date:

Mon, 02 Dec 2013 23:25:46 +1100

From:

torsten@nenzen.net <nenzen@nenzen.org>

To:

Dave Dennis <Dave.Dennis@cch.net.au>

CC:

info@cch.net.au, office@cch.net.au, admin@cch.net.au, caroline.dennis@cch.net.au

Subject:

Re: Fwd: Christian meetings

 

Community Church Hornsby.

 

Hi Dave Dennis,

 

Thanks for your decision to respond more honestly to me this time in relation to my repeated question to your church regarding opportunity of Christian fellowship. I will endeavour to comment on your letter, and I will thereafter return to my original two questions a third and last time. Possibly, after having read my comments beneath you will be able to read my two questions again with a new mind and without typical church prejudices, although I acknowledge that I doubt that you will.

 

You wrote: “To be honest I deliberately left your questions about small groups and singles connections unanswered.” You would get away with this type of respectless tactic of disingenuously and cowardly evading people’s questions - among the naivite of many people and supplemental denial of most church people. After all, superficiality and falsehood are two main characteristics of churchy people. But thanks for finally acknowledging to me your deliberate evasion. I highly value honesty and truth. I know (possibly better than most) the falsehood of most pastors and church leaders, and because of this knowledge, I also know to never concede to social dishonesty, lies or malice of pastors, but to insist that pastors turn towards truth. Pastoral BS and manipulation works fine on most people. It just doesn’t work very well on me.

 

One of the reasons you mentioned in your letter in attempting to justify your evasion of an answer was “We do not have a ’singles’ ministry as such. We have many small groups but none are specifically for single people”. Your misunderstanding is common among many pastors. In my letter to churches in NSW, of which also you received the exact same letter, I never asked if there existed a specific ‘Singles Ministry’ exclusively for Christian singles. You misunderstood. I declared my intent upfront: “I seek a Christian community in Sydney where I also might find opportunities to fellowship, socialise, meet and talk with other Christian singles.” Very few churches on earth have a church-based ministry specifically for single Christians. Most churches on earth have weak or near extinct fellowship, or they may outsource human communication and relationships to profiteering internet companies that most often are operated by pseudo-Christians or non-Christians.

 

You also wrote: “If you are looking for us to help you find ‘the future Mrs Nenzen’ then it's just not that simple.” I have never asked you, nor any other person on earth, to find a wife for me. Again, I never asked for your church to help me find anyone. I simply asked; “Are there opportunities in your congregation where also single Christians can meet and communicate - and build relationships?” Secular people normally understand that no human personal relationship can exist without fulfilment of these two fundamental conditions for human personal relationship: 1) a coordinated existence in time and space (meeting) and 2) exchange of information (communication). But for whatever reason, it is nearly impossible for pastors of churches to understand these fundamental requirements of human relationship. It is not merely sufficient that so-called “Christians” gather inside a building once a week to sit in pews/chairs and focus their attention on a so-called “pastor”. My primary reason for visiting any “church” is search for Christian fellowship. For these Christian activities I do not need any “church”: prayer, worship or Biblical edification. I can do these activities on my own. The only thing I cannot do on my own is to fellowship. I need Christian fellowship, and I need Christian marriage, because I am by God designed to be social, relational, and intimate. Depreciation and declination of authentic Christian church-based fellowship, and passive and active outsourcing of human relationships (including opportunities for Christian singles to meet and communicate) are the realities of nearly all so-called churches. But I empirically assume, until proven otherwise, that you have not a clue what I am talking about, possibly because you have assumed the role of a pastor.

 

Absolutely yes! At my position in the life that God has granted to me, meeting other followers of Jesus Christ who are single but who are hoping to enter the Biblical institution and relationship of heterosexual marriage, is my primary reason for visiting any church. Christian fellowship with opportunity to meet and communicate with other single Christians will remain my primary reason for visiting any church, until I am married. After marriage, any form of Christian fellowship will be my primary reason for visiting a church. Christian fellowship is, and will be, my primary reason for visiting any church. But for YOU, fellowship is apparently a source for concern, as you declare “meeting other singles is of paramount importance to you and for that very reason I feel the need exercise caution” Your assumption about “paramount importance” is only true in context of visiting churches. Any assumption beyond that context is incorrect, and therefore you are wrong in your caution.

 

You write that you feel this and that. I cannot argue against your feelings. But will you please provide a Biblical argument for your caution (your ban against me from participation in your church’s “Christian fellowship”).

 

You also declared: “I do not believe it is a healthy emphasis on which to build relationship with a church family and therefore is not an approach to church life which we would support.” On what Biblical basis is Christian fellowship an unhealthy emphasis? On what Biblical grounds is Christian marriage an unhealthy emphasis? Is church life, in your mind, supposed to be isolated from life? Or maybe church life, in your head, is supposed to be isolated from God? You really do have, according to the words of your declaration, an unhealthy view of humanity, God and church. And you have, by the words of your statements, an unhealthy emphasis on yourself as a pastor.

 

Mr Dave Dennis, I have encountered many charismatic and pseudo-charismatic churches and individuals, of which some church sub-cultures and their expressions are both spiritually and humanly unhealthy. Twice I have visited your church, and persons in your church have then approached me not only during your so-called service but also afterwards, outside your venue, with a non-relational but blunt “Can I pray for you?” Those persons, even though they mean well, are using proposals of prayer in compensation for their lack of social skill to connect with other people. God bless them. But I have observed and experienced these “charismatic” church sub-cultures before, and their partial delusions. I am by no means discrediting everything as bogus in your church, because I know the Holy Spirit who often speaks directly with me, but much of charismatic churches is merely wishful or manipulative talk. However, in regards to your statement “I feel the Holy Spirit revealed to me that you have come to CCH with many wounds which need healing …”, I know to discard this your statement as typical manipulation. Shame on you! I urge you, Dave Dennis, to immediately discontinue your manipulation and dishonesty; testifying falsely about the Holy Spirit. You continued your statement with these manipulative words “Jesus is offering it to you through CCH, but I believe it will come with a renewed mind for you on church life and church leadership.” Yeah, you are dangerously close in your manipulative mindset to steal glory from God.

 

Listen! The world does not need you as much as you wish they would. Sydney and Hornsby does not need your CCH church. Neither does the world need me. The world primarily needs Jesus Christ!

 

You need to rethink your role; not as one who controls and manipulates people, but as one who humbly serves people the Truth in love; prayerfully caring for people in all their unique circumstances of life.

 

I will ask for the last time:

- Are there opportunities in your congregation where also single Christians can meet and communicate - and build relationships?

- Are there fellowship groups, community groups, cell groups or small groups that I can attend?

 

Best regards,

 

Torsten Nenzen

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Date:

Mon, 2 Dec 2013 05:00:33 +0000

From:

Dave Dennis <Dave.Dennis@cch.net.au>

To:

torsten@nenzen.net <torsten@nenzen.net>

Subject:

Fwd: Christian meetings

 

Hi Torsten,

 

I am sorry that you have felt some sense of rejection in the last couple of weeks. I hope to address your specific questions and issues raised, but at the same time I do feel that some conversations are better done face to face rather than by email or letter. If you would like to discuss these things further I suggest we organise a time to talk in person.

 

You have a direct style of communication so I will be direct also. I did send an email response to you last week on behalf of CCH. Jill knew I had spent some time with you the previous Sunday so she asked if I'd be happy to email you - which of course I was and still am. To be honest I deliberately left your questions about small groups and singles connections unanswered. For one thing we do not have a "singles" ministry as such. We have many small groups but none are specifically for single people. Secondly, it seems to me from your requests that the issue of meeting other singles is of paramount importance to you and for that very reason I feel the need exercise caution. I do not believe it is a healthy emphasis on which to build relationship with a church family and therefore is not an approach to church life which we would support. If you are looking for us to help you find "the future Mrs Nenzen" then it's just not that simple. Perhaps I could have included some answer to your query about small groups etc in my initial response, but I did feel some hesitation in trying to explain all that after one interaction. My apologies if this has led to any feeling of a lack of care. Rather it was through my feeling the need to establish a better basis for fellowship.

 

I feel the Holy Spirit revealed to me that you have come to CCH with many wounds which need healing, just like a bullied child who goes to a new school with the expectation of getting more bullying and filters every comment and interaction through that expectation, ultimately becoming a self-fullfilling prophecy. It does not need to go that way! Jesus has healing for your wounds, and I believe Jesus is offering it to you through CCH, but I believe it will come with a renewed mind for you on church life and church leadership. Church leadership and governance are vital issues in the church today and the fact that some places get it wrong does not mean all leadership is corrupt.

 

I believe Romans 14 speaks really specifically to your situation. In particular v14 when Paul says, "I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean." It's really easy to find issues to be divided over. But Paul emphasises the need to find unity in the Spirit even though we have some differences. This whole chapter talks about how we as brothers in the church should deal with differences of scriptural interpretation and the practical application of our faith. It's important to remember he is talking to ONE church (the romans) when he says this. He's not talking to how we tolerate other denominations but how we relate day-to-day despite our differences. I encourage you to spend time reading and meditating on this passage of scripture.

 

So far you have been fairly circumspect with us, giving some guarded answers about yourself. I understand that comes from having been hurt before, but unless you can get past that I think you will continue to struggle in this way. I am absolutely sure that there is a place for you at CCH where you can find a home and a family, but it will not necessarily come on your own terms but rather as a result of spending time getting to know us and allowing yourself to be known also.

 

As I wrote earlier, I am happy to meet up and talk more about this if you would like to.

 

Kind regards,

Dave Dennis

Children, Youth and Young Adults Pastor

 

W: www.cch.net.au / E: dave.dennis@cch.net.au

M: 0401 953 932 / P: 02 9482 2479 / F: 02 9477 7561

Ministry Centre: Unit 4/67–71 Jersey Street Hornsby NSW 2077

Post: PO Box 487, Hornsby NSW 1630

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Date:

Sun, 01 Dec 2013 15:08:33 +1100

From:

torsten@nenzen.net <nenzen@nenzen.org>

To:

info@cch.net.au, office@cch.net.au, admin@cch.net.au, caroline.dennis@cch.net.au

Subject:

RE: Christian meetings

 

Hornsby Community Church,

 

Hi!

 

I visited your church on Sunday Nov.24 and filled in one of your welcome cards with my contact details and a handwritten message on the card that I would like to attend fellowship groups and social groups where also single Christians have opportunity to communicate with each other. You did not contact me the past week regarding my inquiry of joining mid-week small or connecting groups.

 

I also visited your church today Sunday Dec.1. As I visited your church today, I met someone who looked at me with unfriendly eyes and spoke at me with a cold inhumane voice, and I therefore suspected that the person who approached probably was an employed church staff. I avoided the person and walked away. But within minutes, after having considered the typically inhumane approach for those few minutes and then remembering that Hornsby Community Church office had neglected to respond to my inquiry of attending fellowship, I decided to ask the unfriendly individual who she was. Of course, I was perfectly right: the woman, named Jill [Carter], was a staff member of the church with the function apparently as a pastoral care coordinator.

 

Hornsby Community Church, may I please ask if there is a reason why your church did not respond to my specific inquiry about attending opportunities for fellowship?

 

I ask again:

- Are there opportunities in your congregation where also single Christians can meet and communicate - and build relationships?

- Are there fellowship groups, community groups, cell groups or small groups that I can attend?

 

Best regards,

 

Torsten Nenzen

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Date:

Fri, 22 Nov 2013 06:23:24 +0000

From:

Douglas Lewis <Douglas.Lewis@cch.net.au>

To:

torsten@nenzen.net <torsten@nenzen.net>

Subject:

RE: Christian meetings

 

Hello Torsten

 

Thank you for contacting us. It would be great to meet you and have a chat about how we could best assist you to connect with similar minded people.

 

We meet Sunday mornings 9am at Event Cinema 5 in Hornsby Westfield shopping centre. Then Sunday evening at 6pm we meet at our Ministry Centre that we call The Bridge on Jersey St. http://www.cch.net.au/maps/

 

Below is the link to the information page of our services

http://www.cch.net.au/services/

 

Hope to catch up with you at one of the services. Or you can introduce yourself to one of the welcomers who can show you around.

 

regards

 

Douglas Lewis

Manager

 

W: www.cch.net.au / E: info@cch.net.au

M: 0412 037 149 / P: 02 9482 2479 / F: 02 9477 7561

Ministry Centre: Unit 4/67–71 Jersey Street Hornsby NSW 2077

Post: PO Box 487, Hornsby NSW 1630

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Date:

Fri, 22 Nov 2013 15:00:00 +1100

From:

Torsten <t@nenzen.org>

To:

info@cch.net.au, office@cch.net.au, admin@cch.net.au, caroline.dennis@cch.net.au

Subject:

Christian meetings

 

Dear Community Church Hornsby,

 

Hi.

 

I am a Christian single man here in Sydney. I seek a Christian community in Sydney where I also might find opportunities to fellowship, socialise, meet and talk with other Christian singles.

 

Are there opportunities in your congregation where also single Christians can meet and communicate - and build relationships?

 

Are there fellowship groups, community groups, cell groups or small groups that I can attend?

 

Best regards,

 

Torsten Nenzén

Email: torsten@nenzen.net